Agenda and draft minutes

Apologies were received from Councillors Parkhouse and Wardle. Councillor Rees assumed the Chair and Councillor Darling was appointed Deputy Chair for the meeting.

The Chair also announced that the agenda would be reordered due to unavoidable logistical constraints.

To approve and sign the minutes of the Customer Focus Scrutiny Committee held on 27 June 2024.

The minutes of the meeting of the Customer Focus Scrutiny Committee held on 27 June 2024 were taken as read, approved and signed by the Chair as a true and

accurate record.

Councillors are reminded of the need to declare any disclosable pecuniary interests that relate to business on the agenda and which have not already been included in the register of interests, before any discussion takes place on the item. Unless the interest is sensitive, you must also disclose the nature of the interest. In accordance with the Council's Code of Conduct, you must then leave the room and must not participate in any further discussion of the item. Councillors requiring clarification should seek the advice of the Monitoring Officer prior to the day of the meeting.

No declarations of interest were made by Members.

Details of questions should be notified to the Democratic Services Manager via the committee.services@exeter.gov.uk email by 10.00am at least three working days prior to the meeting. For this meeting any questions must be submitted by 10.00am on Monday 30 September 2024.

For details about how to speak at Committee, please click the following link - https://exeter.gov.uk/council-and-democracy/councillors-and-meetings/public-speaking-at-meetings/overview/ .

The Chair reported the receipt of four questions from members of the public under Standing Order No. 19:-

Question from Ms Freya Searle

“In undertaking the Scrutiny of funding for Citizens Advice Exeter, proposed by Councillor Mitchell, will the Committee establish what steps Exeter City Council is taking to mitigate the impact of this funding cut on the most vulnerable in our City?”

The Chair asked Councillor Vizard, Portfolio Holder for Climate, Ecological Change

and Communities, to answer Ms Searle’s question. Cllr Vizard gave the following

response:

“The Council already provides its own services and promotes a wide range of other services like those provided by ECAB and will continue to do so. The Council already promotes and signposts to a wide range of local and national in-person and on-line services which offer similar support to that offered by ECAB to vulnerable citizens. Locally these in-person services include Inclusive Exeter and Ukrainian Connections who provide advice and information to individuals from culturally diverse communities. Other organisations such as Age UK provide advice and information specifically to older people.  Partners within Colab Exeter provide a wide range of support to people at risk of homelessness, with drug and alcohol dependency and street attachment. Colab Exeter also provides information and advice to vulnerable women. Wellbeing Exeter Community Builders and Connectors also sign post to a wide range of information, advice and support services.

The Council employs teams of officers who provide information and advice to vulnerable people and those on low incomes in several ways: through signposting in our Customer Connect Centre; online and in-person access to, and processing of welfare payments through our Revenue and Benefits Team; in-person access to information, advice and support  for those who are at risk of, or are homeless through our Homeless Prevention Team and for our social housing tenants through our Tenancy Support Services. We also contract for targeted advice services for people facing homelessness with an independent third party to ensure people have choice and this year’s contract has been awarded, by competitive tendering, to ECAB.

Since the Covid 19 pandemic there has been a paradigm shift to the use of on-line services which provide trusted sources of information and advice. Amongst those we promote are the National Debt help line and Gov.UK Get free debt advice. We recognise there is always more we can do through our social media and other networks to promote trusted local, national, on-line and in-person sources of information and advice and will continue to expand our signposting activity.”

In a supplementary question, Ms Searle asked if the Council had done any assessment of other agencies. Councillor Vizard replied that further consultations and assessments would be made.

Question from Ms Fiona Jane Willmott

“In undertaking the Scrutiny of funding for Citizens Advice Exeter, proposed by Councillor Mitchell, will the Committee establish whether it conducted an equality impact assessment of the impact of the funding reduction on Citizens Advice Exeter and the most vulnerable in our City?”

The Chair asked  ...  view the full minutes text for item 27.

To receive questions from Members of the Council to the relevant Portfolio Holders for this Scrutiny Committee. The Portfolio Holders are:-

Advance questions from Members relating to the Portfolio Holders should be notified to Democratic Services via committee.services@exeter.gov.uk.

In accordance with Standing Order No. 20, the following questions were submitted by Members:-

Question from Councillor Moore to Councillor Asvachin, Portfolio Holder for Housing, Homelessness Prevention and Customer Services:-

“In response to my enquiry over the summer, the Strategic Director People told me that between April 2019 - March 2024 there have been 35 homes investigated as potentially empty homes of which 17 were found to be not empty. There have been no compulsory purchases, issuing of an empty dwelling management order or an enforced sale. The Council’s Council Tax team are constantly investigating the status of properties proactively. Reports received from members of the public often involve other public health or nuisance matters which are responded to on a reactive basis by the appropriate team. Various staff involved across the council regularly liaise and share information.

What will you do as Portfolio holder to proactively ensure empty homes are sought out and brought back into use?”

Councillor Asvachin was not in attendance; Councillor Moore was advised by the Chair that a written answer would be provided.

Question from Councillor Read to Councillor Asvachin, Portfolio Holder for Housing, Homelessness Prevention and Customer Services:-

“Thank you for your answer to my question recently regarding the kitchens in the Great Western Hotel stating that they have been fitted out with microwaves but no ovens or hobs due to fire risk. Does the Council think it is acceptable for the two families living there to have no access to proper cooking equipment? How can people create nutritional low cost meals with only use of a microwave? What can be done about this please?”

Councillor Asvachin was not in attendance; Councillor Read was advised by the Chair that a written answer would be provided.

Question from Councillor Read to Councillor Vizard, Portfolio Holder for Climate, Economical Change and Communities:-

“In response to a question from the Marilyn Spurr, a member of the public, Cllr Vizard replied that he would reply in writing to Ms Spurr’s follow up question in writing. Can he share his written response please?

Also, can Cllr Vizard share his written response to another member of the public’s question put by Chris Hill asking if Cllr Vizard agreed that the carbon footprint of a bank regarding fossil fuel exploitation should be taken in to account when choosing a bank.

Given the council invests with CCLA Property Fund that is underpinned by ESG principles, does he agree that it would be reasonable to extend such ethical investment across all of the council's investment approaches and have a policy on ESG such as other Councils such as Oxford have, in order to be progressing towards the Council’s target of net zero by 2030?”

Councillor Vizard remarked that the questions had been sent particularly late – namely, 11.30pm the night before the meeting –, which did not allow for in-depth replies. He confirmed to Councillor Read that he had emailed Ms Spurr and Mr Hill on 22 July with identical answers to their  ...  view the full minutes text for item 28.

To consider and discuss the Executive report of 3 September 2024.

The Strategic Director for Corporate Resources gave a succinct summary of the salient points of the report submitted. He then answered Members’ questions as follows:-

·         all the affected tenants of the Guildhall Shopping Centre had breakable leases;

·         the Children’s Centre had a long lease but the Exeter City Council would be working with Devon County Council about this;

·         it would take a minimum of two years for any move to take place;

·         there hadn’t been as many financially viable options as hoped;

·         the possibility of renting office accommodation around Southernhay had been explored;

·         Exeter City Council needed to make better use of its assets;

·         the cheapest option was always to move into something you already own;

·         the Guildhall Shopping Centre had good quality lifts and addressed accessibility issues for committees;

·         it was recognised that the Guildhall itself was not comfortable for Full Council;

·         different scenarios and options – such as the cost of moving vs the cost of staying in the Civic Centre) would be produced and included in a report; and

·         while there was a  range of options across the various parts of the city, the preference was for the city centre.

He made further reference to:-

·         the benefits of increased footfall at the Guildhall Shopping Centre;

·         how hot desking and a desk space booking system would be implemented in any new premises;

·         consultations with the staff sounding board and the ‘project group’; and

·         the need for the RAMM to be part of the conversation.

Members agreed with the steps to be taken in accordance with the recommendations set out in the report to Executive and Council.

The Chair presented hers and Councillor Parkhouse’s proposal for scrutiny around Budget Monitoring, namely “to scrutinise the reports for Quarter 2 and for Quarter 4 (or ‘Outturn Report’)”. She called for cross-party consensus on this scrutiny proposal, advising that she and Councillor Parkhouse had already discussed it with the Strategic Director for Corporate Resources.

The Strategic Director for Corporate Resources explained the rationale behind Q2 and Q4, adding that:-

·         the three reports that go to the Executive would be provided (General Fund, Housing Revenue Account and Capital Monitoring);

·         the report would provide Members with an opportunity to understand variances; and

·         for scrutiny to be impactful, getting the sequencing and timing right was essential.

Responding to a query from a Member, he clarified that one of the tangible results of this piece of scrutiny would be to identify trends.

It was moved by Councillor Read, and seconded by Councillor Patrick, that Scrutiny of the Budget at Quarter 2 and Quarter 4 be added to the Scrutiny Work Plan as a standing item. On a vote, the motion was CARRIED unanimously.

To receive a Portfolio Holder update on Communities from Councillor Vizard.

The Chair announced that the Portfolio Holder update would be taken as read and opted to go straight to questions.

Councillor Darling remarked that the company in charge of running the Exeter Community Lottery was based in Australia and felt that a company based in Devon or at least in the UK might be better suited. The Place Partnership Manager advised that an options appraisal had taken place and that the operator in question, Gatherwell, worked with over 100 local authorities. The Portfolio Holder added that the contract would be reviewed after two years from the start date of the Exeter Community Lottery.

The Portfolio Holder also made reference to the successful tender for homelessness outreach work.

Councillor Read commented on the underspend, remarking that more requests came at the end of the year. She suggested adopting a different approach, as under the current process, unspent money did not roll forward. She also felt that Members could be informed in advance of how much money would be left. Councillor Vizard replied that he was open to thoughts from Members on the matter; the Place Partnership Manager added that proposals for the Grants Panel would be welcomed too.

Councillor Harding noted a reference to “more stringent targeting of the grants” in the report and called for consideration to be given to how grants would be promoted to wards that did not have Community Builders. This was also something on which the Portfolio Holder welcomed suggestions from Members. The Place Partnership Manager encouraged Councillors to flag community organisations they felt ECC ought to talk to.

During further discussion, reference was made to:-

·         Strategic Needs Assessments for community buildings;

·         progress on the Wellbeing Exeter contract being taken over by Exeter Community Initiatives;

·         the merits of outsourcing vs insourcing for community buildings; and

·         the work evaluation partner for the community building audit.

The Portfolio Holder also confirmed to Councillor Moore that ECC would be consulting with communities on neighbourhood CIL money after 2026.

Members noted the Portfolio Holder update.

Report of the Strategic Director for People and Communities.

Members noted that no officer was in attendance to present this item. With the approval of the Chair, Councillor Wright explained that:-

·         the report that had been submitted was only an interim update; and

·         the November 28 meeting of the Customer Focus Scrutiny Committee would be a better forum to receive a fuller report.

The Committee formally requested that the item ‘Consultation Charter and Development of an Engagement and Consultation Policy’ be brought back to the next meeting (November 28), to be presented by the Strategic Director for People and Communities.

Report of the Strategic Director for Corporate Resources.

The Head of Finance and the Business Rates Manager gave Members a summary of the report submitted and responded to questions as follows:-

·         in terms of quantification, around 60 businesses currently benefit from Empty Property Relief (EPR);

·         the Council could only work within the regulations;

·         there was a lot that the (previous) Government could have done, but didn’t; and

·         ‘box-shifting’ was indeed a loophole.

During debate, Members made the following comments:-

·         maybe the EPR was sometimes used for positive purposes, as some properties were empty for valid reasons (rather than to exploit a loophole);

·         clarity was needed about what the EPR was there for, as well as about who was being penalised ultimately; and

·         sometimes it was a better option for a company to sell an empty property.

It was moved by the Chair, and seconded by Councillor Darling:-

1.    that officers report to the Customer Focus Scrutiny Committee in six months’ time on the impact of the change in the law;

2.    that senior Council officers consider writing to the Secretary of State and the Local Government Association to raise the issues concerning the practice of ‘box-shifting’.

On a vote, the motion was CARRIED unanimously.

To include Scrutiny proposals received from Members.

Members discussed the Work Plan and Scrutiny Proposals submitted.

There was consensus that having fewer items on the agenda would allow for more efficient scrutiny and, consequently, it was agreed that the items ‘Update on Exeter Community Lottery - First Year of Operation’ and ‘Tenants Energy Review of

our Passivhaus Council Homes’ were not time-critical and could be deferred. Also, in Councillor Parkhouse’s absence, the discussion around Stagecoach South West was pushed back to the November meeting.

Citizens Advice in Exeter

Clarity was given to Members that Standing Order 18, under which Councillor M Mitchell had submitted this proposal, could trigger an item not only to be discussed for inclusion on the work programme but, if the matter was deemed urgent, to feature on the agenda for the next meeting.

Councillor M Mitchell, speaking under Standing Order 44, made particular reference to:-

·         the context of Wellbeing Exeter;

·         the financial position of Citizens Advice;

·         how, to many people in the community, Citizens Advice was seen as an emergency service;

·         conversations he had had with Citizens Advice.

He suggested the piece of scrutiny could take the shape of:-

·         an officer report which considered the relationship between ECC and Citizens Advice;

·         a presentation from Citizens Advice; and

·         a Q&A session.

There was consensus for the item ‘Citizens Advice in Exeter’ to be put on the agenda of the November meeting but the Monitoring Officer reminded that clarity was essential for the scoping out of the report, remarking that Councillor M Mitchell had not yet submitted a detailed proforma.

Consequently, it was moved by Councillor Moore, and seconded by Councillor Fullam:-

1.    that the item ‘Citizens Advice in Exeter’ be added to the agenda of the 28 November 2024 meeting of the Customer Focus scrutiny Committee; and

2.    that the scoping of the item in question be delegated to the Scrutiny Programme Board at their 16 October 2024 meeting.

On a vote, the motion was CARRIED unanimously.

Members then discussed the budget scrutiny suggestions submitted to Councillors Parkhouse and Rees in the summer, as requested at the previous meeting. The suggestions had been collated and included in the agenda for the present meeting.

The Monitoring Officer reminded Members that submitting a proforma facilitated the scrutiny process and made the following further comments:-

·         the Strategic Director for Corporate Resources wanted to enable scrutiny;

·         it was sensible for the Section 151 Officer to present budget scrutiny items; and

·         for the 2025-26 exercise, it would be possible to bring forward the January meeting of the Customer Focus Scrutiny Committee.

Proposal from Councillor Read (as submitted)

After discussion, it was moved by Councillor Read, and seconded by Councillor Miller-Boam, that the Customer Focus Scrutiny Committee receive an Update on the Budget Setting Process, to include the Capital Budget and the consideration of options at the 28 November 2024 meeting.

On a vote, the motion was CARRIED unanimously.

Proposal from Councillor Moore (as submitted)

After discussion, it was moved by Councillor Moore, and seconded by Councillor  ...  view the full minutes text for item 34.